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If you wake up to pee or have suggestions to help with this problem please come here

Discussion in 'Lifestyle' started by davebassfishing, Jan 16, 2016.

  1. davebassfishing

    davebassfishing Well-Known Member

    I am all about looking back in time and seeing how we evolved etc...I'm all about avoiding blue light and trying to be as much like our ancestors as possible...however SOME things that they did were not optimal and we don't need to continue to do.. I think waking up in the middle of the night is one of those things...

    If you take 100 people that sleep through the night and tell them that our ancestors woke up half way through and they should set their alarms for 3am and stay up they would laugh at it...I understand you are not saying that but if you wake up every night to pee for 12 plus years even just once you would get sick of it and want it to stop...I much rather sleep through the night then wake up every night...

    But I get where you are coming from...if your waking up to pee is it worth it to change diet and eat the way I'm eating...for me personally yes it's worth it as I'm feeling better physically and mentally...MUCH stronger sex drive and I'm stronger in the gym...so for me personally I will continue eating this way...just gotta find a little more variety and tweak it to make it work a little longer...I'm lazy though so I like how I don't have to cook most of my food lol
  2. davebassfishing

    davebassfishing Well-Known Member

    Yes I do believe free t is up because of lowered shbg but I also believe what Tim says about how insulin resistance is a problem with the cells using glycogen...if the cells can get "practice" at using glycogen without insulin then insulin sensitivity can be improved and we would need less insulin to get our cells to use it...with that improved insulin sensitivity comes improved testosterone as well....

    I also think I'm stronger because I'm spending less of my overall time in a stressed state as that's really what the main focus of the diet is....stopping the stress response and stress metabolism and kicking on the oxidative metabolism....not only are my androgens up a little but my stress hormones are definitely done some as well by eating more fruit and of course avoiding pufas....
  3. Chieftain

    Chieftain Active Member

    I completely disagree with that biphasical sleep is not optimal. Anyone who has ever slept under the bare sky knows this, and if you look at some of the studies and experiments by Thomas Wehr Roger Ekirch who are the top authorities in this scientific field, their experiments show that every non-sleep deficient human sleeps biphasically when they are exposed to natural lightning and darkness patterns. The reason why most people are even able to sleep for 8 hours straight in the first place is because they are chronically sleep-deprived, like the vast majority of modern humans.
    davebassfishing likes this.
  4. davebassfishing

    davebassfishing Well-Known Member

    Well I guess everyone should set their alarms if they are sleeping through the night then to match this...

    I just can't understand how it could actually be beneficial to wake up from sleeping which is restorative and anti stress and waking up in darkness (which is a stressor)...I'm completely open minded though...

    @austin would have some good insight on this too...
  5. Chieftain

    Chieftain Active Member

    Humans or any other primates for that matter are not made for sleeping in beds and setting alarms. However, waking up other members of the tribe during the tribe to keep watch over the fire would have been absolutely obligatory. Ask any student in evolutionary science about biphasical sleep and they'll tell you it's the natural sleep pattern for humans. This is not opnion, it's fact :)
  6. davebassfishing

    davebassfishing Well-Known Member

    Natural yes...but optimal is what we are all after here...I'm not arguing that they did sleep this way...I remember reading about this in the past...the question is if it's optimal...

    If it's optimal I'm sure we would have something to read about how it is physiologically better...I'm sure it would have been brought up here somewhere in the sleep section...

    But like I said...I'm completely open minded and if see some kind of evidence how it physiologically can benefit us better than sleeping through the night than I'll be proud and happy that I wake up to pee as I would have the most optimal sleep and it would be beneficial to me....I can tell you right now that I feel like shit for the past 12 years waking up to pee in the middle of the night...
  7. davebassfishing

    davebassfishing Well-Known Member

    So if you are sleeping through the night and it's optimal to NOT sleep through the night then what should those here do that are sleeping through the night?

    This is why I mention setting an alarm...because how else are you supposed to wake up in the middle of the night if you don't already naturally and nobody is up to wake you?

    Why would you wait for me to fix this problem...I have been trying 12 years to fix this problem for you to tell me that I don't need to fix it?! It's optimal to wake up and break up your sleep and fixing the problem is only going to be worse for your sleep?! So you wait for me to fix the problem to tell me that there was no problem!! lol ;) ;)

    In all seriousness I think we should just agree to disagree because we are not going to get anywhere...I personally think it is indeed a fact that our ancestors years ago slept like that and woke up...I just don't think it was optimal...it was optimal for them because they had lions and shit to worry about...

    I'm going to continue to do what I'm doing because I finally am getting somewhere with my metabolism, sleep, sex drive and strength in the gym and if it makes me feel better no reason to stop...it doesn't mean every single person has to eat this way...but if I can help some with this problem then that's what it's all about...helping others...cause I know how much this problem of waking up to pee affected me over the years...and it's not me that's helping them...it's Tim...all credit goes to Tim...I'm just sharing my personal experience following a way of eating designed by Tim.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
  8. Chieftain

    Chieftain Active Member

    For someone living a stressful, modern 9-5 lifestyle sleeping through the night may be a neccessity. Is it optimal for your overall health? Probably not, but waking up in the night when you have to get up early in the morning and go to the office/construction site/whatever can be annoying, and I understand that you'd want to "fix" that since it can be causing problems for you. Obviously we both agree that what was optimal for our ancestors might not be optimal for us, altough it very much depends on the various indiviudal lifestyles of modern man. I never said that you're supposed to actively try to wake up in the middle of night, only that it is a perfectly natural thing to do, and eating close to 2000 calories worth of fructose which is enough to cause FLD in the long run is probably not the best way to try to solve sleep issues. Don't get me wrong, I pound down alot of fructose too, but there is a limit to what's good and what is straight up dangerous. Agreeing to disagree is just fine by me, but if you do have the time to check your total T and more specifically your SHBG while on this fructose-dominant diet it would be very interesting to see. Something to add to @Strider 's huge collection of hormonal data and blood tests. In theory it should decrease SHBG, but it might also skyrocket TSH which obviously doesn't have to be a bad thing at all, but that could increase the SHBG aswell. Would definitely be interesting to see.
  9. davebassfishing

    davebassfishing Well-Known Member

    Well I'm eating close to 2000 calories of carbs from SUGAR...fructose grams is absolutely high and can definitely cause FLD with the excess consumption of PUFA and/or the lack of choline in the diet...The amount of fructose I consume in a day is probably somewhere in the ballpark of 110 grams...I also get 300 mg choline from the eggs I consume and 700 mg from the choline supplement for a total of around 1 gram a day...Choline helps the liver export fats/cholesterol and is needed to keep the liver lean...I also obviously avoid PUFA's...

    I'd love to see the total t/free t...I think that would be fun to check and see...

    I am open minded about nutrition and sure I was absolutely scared to death of fructose...I used to actually count how much fructose was in each fruit and I would make sure I didn't hit 30 grams of fructose a day...Now as you can see I am eating just over 100 grams a day...The studies are flawed on fructose being the enemy and the cause of FLD...it's with the presence of pufa's and/or lack of choline in the diet that causes the fatty liver...


  10. Chieftain

    Chieftain Active Member

    One of those studies are from 1949. Pretty crazy. Anyway, since I eat alot of fructose I should probably also try to increase my choline intake. How much Choline would 5 eggs give me? I eat quite alot of shrimp too which I guess has even more Choline than eggs, but I'm not sure how much it would equate to.
  11. davebassfishing

    davebassfishing Well-Known Member

    That's all from Tim's course so I will not take credit...he did all the research...

    He recommends 500-1000 mgs a day...5 eggs will have you covered although that is a lot of pufa which is also very important to avoid to prevent fatty liver... That's like 750 mgs choline right there...shrimp is a good source too...

    I play it safe and make sure I get at least a gram choline every day with supplementation...just my own personal insurance against fatty liver disease if you will...

    I personally keep pufa down to less than 5 grams a day but I avoid obviously the high pufa shit foods like vegetable oils...getting a couple grams from 2 eggs is not so bad because of the extreme benefits of eggs...he mentions how pufa prevent the liver from exporting fat/cholesterol and that's how the liver can accumulate fat as well...


    this is a great article on choline and fatty liver disease...
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
  12. usmc_duane

    usmc_duane New Member

    I've never heard of putting on magnesium oil. I've been putting milk of magnesia for pain and arthritis and soreness. It also helps to breakdown calcium buildup from broken bones. Hope that helps.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  13. David90

    David90 Active Member

    Also if you must Wake Up to pee, try to:

    • Watch if you have a Open Mouth while sleeping. If you wake up with a dry mouth or dribble on the pillow, or snore, that's a clue to an open mouth. Resting breath should be pretty soundless, nasal, diaphragmatic. Mouth-breathing at night bumps up stress hormones - if you are doing that it could be another factor to tackle.
    • Watch you Pee Colour. What Colour Output is it? If it's very pale, then more carbs and salt and less liquids may help. If it's dark yellow/brown, then other factors may be at play, and you won't want to drink less. If you are only drinking about a litre of fluids that doesn't look like a huge amount, but if you are peeing clear that is often a sign that your body is not able to handle that much at the moment.
    • Check if you use sodium bicarbonate? Organic Acids may irritate the bladder, which will make you go to the Toilet even though you bladder isn't full.
    • Check if you Eat Oxalic acid Rich Foods. Oxalic Acids is one of the most important factors in kidney stones. When your kidneys 'sense' there's any crystallisation occuring they will increase your urine ouput.
    (Source: Ray Peat Forum)
  14. Andrew Colucci

    Andrew Colucci Active Member

    I am definitely a mouth breather. I had bad allergies as a kid and couldn't breathe through my nose because it was always stuffed and I guess it's just become a habit that I can't really control.
    usmc_duane likes this.
  15. David90

    David90 Active Member

    I was Mouth Breathing too, because i was doing the Box Breathing Technique before Sleep. Since i switched it to Nasal Breathing only for this, i fall asleep faster. And i was NOT once up to Pee, which is pretty Good.
    usmc_duane likes this.
  16. usmc_duane

    usmc_duane New Member

    Interesting. I just saw my reminder to call back the sleep lab. I have a mouth guard that adjusts my jaw to clear the airway. Still not addressing issues.
    On another note, breathing exercises to get O2 to the brain will help get to sleep. A teaspoon of honey will help frequent waking.
    I make sure to have carbs and grass fed butter before bed along with D, almonds/walnuts and fermented cod liver to raise testosterone.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Andrew Colucci likes this.

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